All very and highly relevant points for discussion. Without quoting all these, what I take from this is that both paganism and Christianity imposed transcendental thinking. Both came from the heart of hierarchical governed civilization. Both tried to transcend this meaningfully but failed. I will go into more of this in a post but this does very much explain where we are today. Appreciated. Thank you.
Years ago a friend and I were philsophizing and he said something that stuck:
"Humans work best under a benevolant dictator"
He's not wrong!
All monotheistic relgions are basically that (I mean heck, all religion)
But even the atheists love it. In fact, it's rooted in our pscyhology. As a father, I'm a benevolant dictator though my goal is to grow us into an anarchistic relationship.
Helicopter parents are these benevolant dictators. But with these we can see the damage it creates. So maybe not that benevolant per se. But humans actually don't really like a lot of choice. Freedom isn't easy.
I'm still torn becasue we really do like our beneolant dictators. Many people actually need them. So I'm not suprised they liked your Rome.
Feb 12, 2023·edited Feb 12, 2023Liked by Helen Dale
Great article. I'm definitely going to give Kingdom of the Wicked a read. But as far as the theme of the article, I agree with what was written broadly. I think it's a little difficult to map the old dichotomy of pagan vs Christian from antiquity onto our modern context. Because it doesn't map out neatly at all. Both sides today (meaning vaguely left vs right) inherited characteristics from both the old Pagans and old Christians. I would also agree that Christianity is far more present in both then Paganism is in either.
I'll add, I don't even think the environmentalism of the modern left is 1 to 1 with the nature worship of the pagans. Nature was a much more broad concept then it is today. Nature isn't just the trees, mountains, oceans, various landscapes. It's not even the atmosphere. It's everything. We are nature in the pagan view. In contrast to today, where people draw this arbitrary line between Man and nature. I think this has some different implications then the modern leftist view of nature in regards to environmentalism.
This may be just my interpretation of it. But I think the authentic pagan view of environmentalism is more like "You can take from nature, but you must give back to nature in the same breathe, and never forget where you came from". Rather than "we have to eat bugs and make ourselves slaves to Gaia". Though we may never know, because the various Pagans never had to deal with the issues of environmentalism.
Thanks for re-publishing this review/article, Ms. Dale. I bought this book on the strength of your July 2019 piece, and on its strength bought it and both volumes of Kingdom of the Wicked. Enjoyed all three. Might you eventually write a similar book using modern society and the Code of Hamurabi as contrasting systems? That might be fun. I enjoy reading your cool-at-a-distance commentaries. Thank you.
All very and highly relevant points for discussion. Without quoting all these, what I take from this is that both paganism and Christianity imposed transcendental thinking. Both came from the heart of hierarchical governed civilization. Both tried to transcend this meaningfully but failed. I will go into more of this in a post but this does very much explain where we are today. Appreciated. Thank you.
Years ago a friend and I were philsophizing and he said something that stuck:
"Humans work best under a benevolant dictator"
He's not wrong!
All monotheistic relgions are basically that (I mean heck, all religion)
But even the atheists love it. In fact, it's rooted in our pscyhology. As a father, I'm a benevolant dictator though my goal is to grow us into an anarchistic relationship.
Helicopter parents are these benevolant dictators. But with these we can see the damage it creates. So maybe not that benevolant per se. But humans actually don't really like a lot of choice. Freedom isn't easy.
I'm still torn becasue we really do like our beneolant dictators. Many people actually need them. So I'm not suprised they liked your Rome.
Great article. I'm definitely going to give Kingdom of the Wicked a read. But as far as the theme of the article, I agree with what was written broadly. I think it's a little difficult to map the old dichotomy of pagan vs Christian from antiquity onto our modern context. Because it doesn't map out neatly at all. Both sides today (meaning vaguely left vs right) inherited characteristics from both the old Pagans and old Christians. I would also agree that Christianity is far more present in both then Paganism is in either.
I'll add, I don't even think the environmentalism of the modern left is 1 to 1 with the nature worship of the pagans. Nature was a much more broad concept then it is today. Nature isn't just the trees, mountains, oceans, various landscapes. It's not even the atmosphere. It's everything. We are nature in the pagan view. In contrast to today, where people draw this arbitrary line between Man and nature. I think this has some different implications then the modern leftist view of nature in regards to environmentalism.
This may be just my interpretation of it. But I think the authentic pagan view of environmentalism is more like "You can take from nature, but you must give back to nature in the same breathe, and never forget where you came from". Rather than "we have to eat bugs and make ourselves slaves to Gaia". Though we may never know, because the various Pagans never had to deal with the issues of environmentalism.
Thanks for re-publishing this review/article, Ms. Dale. I bought this book on the strength of your July 2019 piece, and on its strength bought it and both volumes of Kingdom of the Wicked. Enjoyed all three. Might you eventually write a similar book using modern society and the Code of Hamurabi as contrasting systems? That might be fun. I enjoy reading your cool-at-a-distance commentaries. Thank you.